A Pot/Potter Thing
The third big question I asked a few weeks ago was this:
What is the relationship between reason and Scripture? To rely on human reason without reference to Scripture is classic liberalism, but what about relying on Scripture without reference to reason? Is this desirable, or even possible? What do we do when human reason appears to conflict with Scripture, whether on trivia (like the identity of ‘the smallest of all seeds’, or the age of the earth) or on theology (like an all-loving God ordaining that some go to hell)? How should reason and scripture interact?
In some ways, this question has jumped up the list of biblical questions as a result of the recent debates about hell. So this week, in an omnibus edition uber-post, I thought it would be good to highlight a fascinating article that presents some intriguing conclusions on this whole question, and then offer some thoughts in response.
Jeff Cook, a Christian philosopher who posts occasionally at Jesus Creed, responded recently to Francis Chan and Preston Sprinkle’s book Erasing Hell, which was itself a response to Rob Bell’s Love Wins. Cook found fault with Chan and Sprinkle for repeatedly insisting (along the same lines as Job, Paul in Romans 9, and others) that our minds are incapable of fathoming the deep mysteries of God, and that we should not put God’s revealed words in Scripture in submission to human reasoning. This, Cook suggested, was both impossible and self-defeating. Impossible, because we cannot read the Bible without using human reason, and there are no theory independent readings of Scripture; and self-defeating, because Chan and Sprinkle are reasoning about God, in order to reject the idea that we can reason about God:
Lumping together both what the authors see as the “incomprehensible” horror of divinely mandated genocide and the “incomprehensible” goodness of the crucified Jesus, the writers say, “It’s incredibly arrogant to pick and choose which incomprehensible truths we embrace. No one wants to ditch God’s plan of redemption, even though it doesn’t make sense to us. Neither should we erase God’s revealed plan of punishment because it doesn’t sit well with us. As soon as we do this, we are putting God’s actions in submission to our own reasoning, which is a ridiculous thing for [created beings] to do” (136).
Is this right? Can the intellect be set aside? Can we avoid putting God’s word/actions/character in submission to our reasoning when reading the Bible? I don’t think so. Let me give an example of why we must think hard about *how* we read the Bible, or else we will lose the proper understanding of the Bible.
In American Christianity, one school of thought says that the Bible ought to be read as a narrative. That is, we engage the scripture as the ever-moving story God is telling about himself. Another school of thoughts suggests we read the Bible as a legal document—that the binding truths articulated in the flow of the text apply to all people at all times. Still another school suggests we read the Bible through our stories, our situation, allowing the language to be God’s personal word to us. Of course, these schools can read the Bible in similar and complementary ways, but they will eventually hit some disagreements. For example, when asking whether or not women should speak in church, those affirming the narrative-reading may say that passages restricting the speaking of women were teachings for a specific community, in a specific city, that had specific problems. The legal document Bible reader may object that rejection of such passages is unacceptable for it is a clear teaching in the text. The one reading the scripture exclusively in light of their own situation may go either way depending on the women in her community and how much they annoy her.
How we choose to read the Bible deeply affects what the Bible says. There are no theory independent readings of the Bible. Our theories will move the text despite our best efforts. So what should we do? This is where the intellect is vital and to minimize it in our arguments is to leave the meaning of the scriptures susceptible to those with a bully pulpit, immense charisma, or more sinister still—our own misguided desires for the text to say something it does not (as Sprinkle rightly cautions).
Since arguing about “how” we ought to read the scripture is both good and unavoidable, we can reject the claim that “As soon as we [erase eternal conscious torment], we are putting God’s actions in submission to our own reasoning, which is a ridiculous thing for [us] to do” (136). This is a self-defeating misstep. The authors are asking us through reasoning about God’s actions to reject reasoning about God’s actions.
Without dismissing Cook’s important questions, which I don’t want to miss, I should say at this point that this final paragraph is very unfair to Chan and Sprinkle; they are not rejecting ‘reasoning about God’s actions’ at all, or (as Cook says earlier) ‘setting the intellect aside’, but rejecting ‘putting God’s actions in submission to our own reasoning’. Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologica, John Calvin in the Institutes, and for that matter Paul in Romans 9, were able to reason about God, while nonetheless remaining submitted to his character, words and actions as revealed in the scriptures. This is what Chan and Sprinkle are urging, and to miss this distinction – as if the only alternatives were (a) standing in judgment over God’s character or (b) anti-intellectualism – is to create an unfortunate false dichotomy. Anyway:
As such, those who affirm the unavoidable role of the intellect in Bible reading and reject “Erasing Hell’s” conclusions might say: I see an argument clearly that affects my reading of scripture as significantly as the arguments for valuing author’s intent, or reading the Bible as narrative, or even the arguments for seeing the scripture as God’s inspired word. The argument goes something like this:
1. If God exists, he is exceedingly generous, compassionate, and creative.
2. If God exists, he knows the future of any world he actualizes.
3. A being who is exceedingly generous, compassionate, and creative will not actualize a world he knows will culminate in the everlasting incarceration and torment of a human soul.
Given 1-3, If God exists, he will not actualize a world in which a human soul will suffer in torment for eternity.
Because the intellect is unavoidable in our reading of scripture, and because eternal conscious torment is logically inconsistent with God’s attributes in the argument above—it seems obligatory to reject the traditional interpretation of passages showcasing hell. If such arguments are valid, the Bible *must* be teaching something different than eternal conscious torment, or else the Bible is not displaying the God who is real.
Now, this is not the place for a(nother) discussion about hell. What is significant here, in the context of looking at the Doctrine of Scripture, is the questions Jeff Cook is raising about the relationship of reason and the Bible. At a very simple level, the argument runs:
1. Scripture is often believed to indicate X.
2. Human reason indicates that not-X.
3. Therefore either (a) Scripture does not indicate X, or (b) Scripture is wrong.
What is interesting about this syllogism is that there are examples of it being accepted as valid, and examples of it being rejected as invalid, by the same people. If X were, for example, ‘the earth is flat, unmoving, and is built on pillars’, then the vast majority of living evangelicals would accept the argument above: human reason has shown this isn’t the case, so the Bible must mean something else. (But if the scientific community did a U-turn, and demonstrated conclusively that the earth was flat, unmoving and built on pillars, then my guess is we would be much more likely to believe that Scripture taught this, despite the fact that the texts in question are poetic in nature). If, on the other hand, X were ‘Jesus of Nazareth came back to life’, then all evangelicals would reject the argument: Scripture is clear, so human reason must be wrong. The difference lies in the relative confidence we have that we are right about (1) the meaning of Scripture, and (2) the validity of our reasoning regarding the case in question.
In other words, a more accurate analysis of what Jeff Cook is actually saying might be:
1. Scripture appears to indicate X.
2. Human reason indicates not-X.
3. Therefore either (a) Scripture does not indicate X, despite appearances; or (b) human reason is wrong, despite appearances; or (c) Scripture is wrong.
4. I am convinced that Scripture is not wrong on the point in question.
5. I am convinced that human reason is not wrong on the point in question.
6. Therefore Scripture does not indicate X.
The question, when framed like this, is over (5): how certain are we that human reason is right? Generally, we are very confident that the earth is round, and less confident that the Bible says it is flat – so we happily accept the syllogism above.
Now let’s make it slightly less cut-and-dried. What of the statement of Jesus that the mustard seed is ‘the smallest of all seeds’ (Mark 4:31)? Or of the claim in the Mosaic law that rabbits ‘chew the cud’ (Deut 7:14)? For some evangelicals these are accurate statements, about the relative sizes of seeds and of digestive practices in rabbits, that must be affirmed, since they are clearly taught in the Bible; human reasoning must be wrong. Others would argue differently, being so confident of (5) that (6) is accepted quite happily: Jesus is not making a scientific pronouncement on the sizes of seeds, and Moses is not making a scientific pronouncement on the digestive systems of rabbits, but both are allowing for ideas that would be generally believed in their world (even though they aren’t technically accurate) in order to make wider points.
But this then opens up all sorts of other questions that worry evangelicals. How many other things are affirmed in Scripture that aren’t actually accurate? The genealogies of 1 Chronicles? The flood? The exodus? The miracles of Jesus? When Paul talks about Adam as a historical figure (Rom 5:12-21), is he just saying something that was widely believed in his day, even though it isn’t actually accurate (as most contributors to biologos.org believe)? Doesn’t this cast doubt on Paul’s reliability? What other examples might there be?
And this, in turn, gives rise to a third approach, which is to affirm the statements, and insist that they do not conflict with human reason in the first place: the mustard seed is, in fact, the smallest seed that a Palestinian farmer might sow on his soil; rabbits do, in fact, re-chew partly digested plant material, but using cecotropy rather than regurgitation; and so on.
Easy peasy, some say. But what about this one:
1. Scripture appears to indicate that death entered the world as a result of human sin.
2. Human reason (specifically, paleontology, geology and evolutionary biology) appears to indicate that death was in the world long before human beings existed.
3. Therefore either (a) Scripture does not indicate that death entered the world as a result of human sin – the texts that speak of ‘death’ refer either to the physical or spiritual death of humans, or both; or (b) Human reason is wrong – the dating of fossils, clues in the human genome and so on have been wrongly interpreted; or (c) Scripture is wrong.
4. I don’t buy 3(a), because it doesn’t seem true to Scripture.
5. I don’t buy 3(b), because it doesn’t seem true to science.
6. I don’t want to believe 3(c).
7. Aaaargh!!!
Intriguingly, Wayne Grudem – who can hardly be described as fluffy on the doctrine of Scripture! – admits in Systematic Theology that Scripture appears to suggest 3(b), and science appears to suggest 3(a), which could lead some readers to expostulate something along the lines of (7) … (and here’s where I stop on this one, at least for the moment, for fear of shaking the open can of worms all over the floor, and being slowly eaten by them).
Here’s the big question. Given that we cannot avoid using reason in our interpretation of Scripture (as Jeff Cook rightly says), but given also that the scriptures regularly insist that our reasoning will not always be able to fathom the ways of God (as Francis Chan rightly says), how do reason and Scripture interact? And I think that the answer is that human reason is a great servant, but a terrible master: it can be, must be and will inevitably be used to help us understand Scripture, but it must not be used to assess whether or not Scripture ‘ought’ to say something, with a view to manipulating the Bible into saying something that it doesn’t. So we should use our minds to think about the meanings of texts, the genres of literature, the shape of the biblical story, and how that all might apply today – but we should not use them to constrain exegesis with preconceived ideas about what God should or should not be like. The apostle Paul felt this temptation, and he knew that the readers of his greatest letter would too – but for him, it was a pot / potter thing.
Actually, the part of me that loves New Testament studies – which is quite a big part – wonders whether this approach could lead to the death of exegesis (which I am sure is not Jeff Cook’s intention). Instead of using our reason to establish what a text or author meant in the original setting, and working outwards from there to doctrines and theology, we start with our logical deductions about what God is like, move from there to what the doctrines ought to be, and then (having concluded that a biblical doctrine of hell could not be such-and-such) constrain our exegesis to fit the doctrine we’ve decided is suitable. This, surely, cannot be right. If we distort the text to fit our agreed theology, we will be guilty of appalling exegesis – and critical scholars will be absolutely right to say so. When expounding (say) Matthew 25, we are meant to look for the original meaning of the author, whatever that means for our doctrine. The fact that somebody might not think the results cohere with their idea of what God should be – even if that leads him or her to prefer their idea of God to what the Bible actually says – is, frankly, irrelevant when it comes to establishing the meaning of a particular text. The pot doesn’t get to hold a gun to the head of the potter.
So what happens if, when the exegesis has been done carefully, it turns out that the Bible says something that appears to conflict with human reason? To be honest, in view of Francis Schaeffer’s statement that ultimately there will be “no final conflict” between reason and Scripture, it simply becomes a question of reviewing the logic, then reviewing the exegesis, then reviewing the logic, and so on, until it becomes clear where the mistake has been made. So in theory, I ought to be able to go through the big supposed clashes du jour - evolution, hell, compatibilism, etc - and explain where I think the exegetical and/or logical mistakes have crept into each argument.
But where would be the fun in that?
This is the final part of a five-part series on The Biggest Theological Debate of the Next Twenty Years by Andrew Wilson.
Comments
By CPLavery on 28/09/2011 at 14:24
Very good post, really challenging and really insightful, im currently studying theme and theory around the meaning and pursuit of truth, and it really challenges me and the way i interpret scripture. Thankyou.
By Jackson Baer on 29/09/2011 at 05:50
The Bible does not teach eternal punishment. God’s love & mercy endures forever. Does it really endure forever or only in this life? How can it be Good News if it doesn’t translate to the afterlife? He’s a better Father than we are, right? He will still judge but He won’t write people off forever.
1 Timothy 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
That’s like saying track is for everyone, especially those who like to run. Water is for everyone, especially those who are thirsty. Salvation is for everyone, especially those who believe.
Titus 2:11- For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people.
1 Peter 4:5-6- But remember that they will have to face God, who will judge everyone, both the living and the dead. That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead—so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit.
I’m glad God is more gracious than most Christians. He tells us to love our enemies. Does He turn around and torture His forever? I don’t think so :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjRcO1Sm0HU
By Dan Hayter on 29/09/2011 at 09:01
Excellent points Andrew.
If I can throw a bit of a curve-ball: The logic of you conclusion would run along the following lines (if I have read you properly):
1. Reason seems to say A
2. Scripture seems to say not A
3. Scripture cannot be wrong
4. Therefore either our exegesis is wrong or our reasoning is wrong and we need to adjust one or both until both are right.
I would happily agree, but lets assume I have a Muslim friend and I want to show him that the Bible is more reliable than the Quran. In order to show the unreliability of the Quran we go along the following lines:
1. The Quran seems to say A
2. Reason (or historical study) seems to say not A.
3. Therefore the Quran is unreliable.
What then prevents my muslim friend calling us hypocrites if we apply the above rule to the Quran whilst applying (for example) the following rule to the Bible:
1. The Bible seems to say A (Jericho was destroyed at date x)
2. Reason (archeology) says non-A (Jericho was destroyed 200 years before x and therefore before the Exodus).
3. The Bible cannot be wrong.
4. Therefore either our exegesis is wrong or the reasoning is wrong.
Do you see what I mean? Why in the case of the Quran do we jump from (2) reason saying non-A to (3) The Quran is wrong, whereas in the case of the Bible we happily insert (3) The Bible cannot be wrong, therefore (4).
I agree that step (3) The Bible cannot be wrong is necessary, but how do we save ourselves from the apparent hypocrisy of saying in a Sunday sermon: “The Bible stands up to all historical, archeological and scientific criticism” when what we really mean is “we have a commitment to the fact that the Bible stands up against all historical, archeological and scientific criticism even if it looks like the opposite (and most historians say so)”.
Just playing devil’s advocate I don’t believe for a minute that the Bible is unreliable (3 years of biblical criticism have reinforced that belief if anything).
By Andrew Wilson on 29/09/2011 at 10:34
@Jackson: thanks for the comment! You might be interested to read Chan & Sprinkle’s new book “Erasing Hell”, which I refer to in the post, and which addresses your comments directly.
@Dan: superbly put. In all honesty, though, I don’t think the Qur’an makes enough historically verifiable truth-claims for the comparison to work. For me, the difference between the Bible and the Qur’an isn’t (1) I give the Bible the benefit of the doubt on historical details, but not the Qur’an, but (2) the Bible makes thousands of historical truth-claims, and the Qur’an makes virtually none (other than those which it draws from the Bible). So I don’t think my discussion with my Muslim friend would take the form you suggest above. Having said that, though, you’re absolutely right to challenge the apparently unfalsifiable nature of the way I’ve expressed things here (because in this post, I’m assuming rather than defending evangelicalism). Defending it would involve, among other things, articulating and substantiating a further point (5): all apparent conflicts between reason and Scripture can be resolved in an intellectually compelling and spiritually edifying way, thus vindicating (3) and (4). In your example, that might well mean restructuring the argument:
(1) The Bible does not tell us exactly when Jericho fell, but it is often dated at either c1400 or c1250, depending on our interpretation of 1 Kin 6:1.
(2) Archaeology indicates that Jericho was destroyed in c1550, resettled between (roughly) 1400 and 1275, may have been inhabited between 1275 and 1225, and then remained uninhabited and subject to erosion until 875 (Bienkowski, 1986, 120-125; Kitchen, 2003, 187f).
(3) It is possible, but unlikely, that the remains of 1550 can be fitted with the conquest narrative in Joshua 6.
(4) It is more likely, but not certain, that the conquest happened in the thirteenth century, ending the late bronze age settlement period (1400-1250ish), and that the remains of “Joshua’s Jericho” are largely unrecoverable, like those of many ancient towns, simply because they were slowly eroded over four centuries (as was almost all the middle bronze age town, other than the tombs, for obvious reasons).
(5) This apparent conflict between reason and scripture, like others, can be resolved in an intellectually compelling way.
Thoughts?
By Jackson Baer on 29/09/2011 at 22:08
I read Erasing Hell and while I like Chan, this book was brutal. It felt like he was still working through his beliefs and should have waited to write the book.
By Daniel Pritchard on 01/10/2011 at 18:00
‘So what happens if, when the exegesis has been done carefully, it turns out that the Bible says something that appears to conflict with human reason?’‘
Fair question. Here is another:
So what happens if, when the exegesis has been done carefully, it turns out that the Bible actually says something that appears to conflict with what we have always believed/been taught to believe? Or, put another way - it doesn’t seem to say what we always thought it said…?
This is in part the conclusion of some currently engaging in the ‘hell debate’. Interestingly, some of them are approaching the exegetical task very much in the way you describe, Andrew. - ‘So we should use our minds to think about the meanings of texts, the genres of literature, the shape of the biblical story, and how that all might apply today’
All in all a very helpful introduction to these tricky questions! Thanks. I emailed my contact details… the coffee is still on - when I get back from my hols!
By Nathan Lambert on 05/10/2011 at 11:23
Great post, as usual…
And Daniel, I loved the question, and the way that you brought the issue back to apologetics.
On the topic of epistemology (which all of this boils down to : how do we know what we know?), the two people I have found most helpful in the area are Cornelius Van Til and John Frame (the latter being the disciple of the former). Interestingly, these two theologians were foundational in defining what a Reformed apologetic would look like.
Van Til’s basic premise is that when deciding what the ultimate benchmark of truth is, one HAS to use a presupposition. The Reformed Christian presupposition is that Scripture is this benchmark. Rational Empiricism’s presupposition is that reasonable, verifiable science is that benchmark. We have nothing to prove this presupposition, but that would defeat the object : a pauper can’t crown a king, and similarly, a lesser benchmark can’t crown a higher benchmark. Reason can’t say : “Scripture is highest” because who is reason that we should believe it if it isn’t the highest benchmark of truth? Only the highest benchmark can testify of its supremacy. This is what Van Til calls “Presuppositionalism”
What Frame brings to the table in a fantastic work called “The Doctrine of the Knowledge of God” is that this highest benchmark should then make sense of the other “means of knowledge”. this is what Frame calls “Perspectivalism”. If you’re not acquainted with these guys, thay’re well worth a read.
By Sam on 22/10/2011 at 23:43
re 3a and 3b above , is the dichotomy caused by our limited understanding of time? If God exists outside of time or across all time then he can build a physical world that already incorporates death even though we had yet to sin?
By Daniel Pritchard on 23/10/2011 at 15:41
Thanks for the hint/reminder Nathan, and for your kind comment on mine!
I am not sure that I HAVE to use a presupposition (in the sense of deliberate purpose) so much as it is unavoidable or inevitable. I am shaped by my tradition, my peers, my sense of ‘the way things are’, even my culture, language etc. So Bultmann argued in an essay titled (I think) ‘There is no such thing is presuppositionless exegesis’ (or something that rolled off the tongue equally well).
Bultmann’s point was not that we shouldn’t have presuppositions or that we should worry unduly about them, but that we need to acknowledge them if we are to have any chance of approaching the text of Scripture with integrity!
I’ll try and reference that later… :)
By Daniel Pritchard on 23/10/2011 at 15:45
‘Is Exegesis Without Presupposition possible?’
In Kurt Mueller-Vollmer Ed. The Hermeneutics Reader (Oxford: Basil Blackwell 1986)
I don’t have it - but studied the essay in college some years ago!
By David Baker on 15/12/2011 at 18:06
“Intriguingly, Wayne Grudem – who can hardly be described as fluffy on the doctrine of Scripture! – admits in Systematic Theology that Scripture appears to suggest 3(b), and science appears to suggest 3(a), which could lead some readers to expostulate something along the lines of (7) … (and here’s where I stop on this one, at least for the moment, for fear of shaking the open can of worms all over the floor, and being slowly eaten by them).”
Andrew - great articles. I have landed here having read your article in “Christianity” magazine. I want to re-read them more slowly and consider them more fully.
But re the paragraph I have quoted above - I would have very much liked you to have carried on at that point! Any plans to?!
Best wishes
David Baker
East Dean
By Simon on 14/02/2012 at 08:20
Jackson - I think part of the issue is working out how love and judgement can ft together in the one God. It is hard to get around God’s judgement in the Bible, but easy(er) to explain the passages you site.
God’s love for his enemies is seen in sending Christ. Their judgement is a result of their rejection of him. In the end, God is giving them what they want.
Without judgement, the cross makes no sense.
By Jackson on 14/02/2012 at 18:23
I understand what you’re saying but eternal punishment is not fair or just for 78 short years lived here on Earth. What about a 17 year old, 25 year old, 11 year old? There is no age of accountability in the Bible. Some Christians have instituted age 12 or so as the age to make more sense. What about a mentally challenged person? No matter which way you look at it, infinite punishment for a finite life is not justice. If we can’t earn our way to Heaven, we can’t earn our way to Hell.